Leah Chan
Leah Chan
What does Coproduction mean to you?
I think one important thing is shifting the power. So coproduction shouldn't just be a buzzword used in charities where they just say “oh we involved this service user” in the project. If it's co-produced it should go a lot deeper than that and actually involve people in not just having conversations, but also being able to have control over the framing of the conversation, and if it's a service, then they should be able to be involved in delivering and managing it as well. Rather than just having things done to them, it's doing things with service users rather than doing on behalf.
How have you used this in your work? How did you come to use this approach?
I started getting involved with coproduction from quite a young age, but not knowing it was called that, and that was more as a participant. As a young person I was involved with a lot of stuff to do with children's rights and improving welfare for children in Newcastle. We did things like services would ask a think tank group to come in and for instance interview youth workers about their jobs, so it would be a giant panel with people who were adults and lots of young people discussing ideas.
In terms of research, I have been using co production as a researcher in my own research. I’ve looked at homelessness and knowledge through some of the creative arts projects that we've been doing. Hopefully, with some of the creative outputs of research that I’m going to be doing as well, and then as a charity worker as well in homelessness.
What other methods did you use in your work? How did these fit with your interest in coproduction?
I guess it all started with when I was young, I was living in housing support with a bunch of other young people and the keyworker told us we’re shutting this down because it's rubbish. And we said what are we going to do, we're going to be homeless again. So I approached this charity Headliners who make media to change lives and they work with young people to empower them to use advice and tell stories and things. At that point was I decided I’m going to make a film and I’m going to make it and we're going to produce it with other young people and show it to the Council and say you're not closing our building! So we did that and then seeing the fact that the building didn't get closed down I think has heavy impacted on my activism and on my research, because I wanted to do a film for my Masters. Which I did, but it didn't go as collaboratively as I wanted because the limitations of the Masters project!
When I started the PhD, and it being about homelessness again, I really wanted to work on a collaborative film with participants. However this has been really complicated by covid especially because a lot of my participants don't have access to digital technologies, and so the people that I have been interviewing and talking to about not just doing a collaborative film but also if there's anything creative that they want to do, or anything they want me to look into. So I’m looking at all these different things and I’m exploring ways to kind of look at how we can incorporate all these different ideas into a medium, everyone has access to, and everyone feels like they can get involved with because not everyone likes film, for instance!
Another thing I’ve been doing is because I’m not just interested in creative artists outputs, I’m researching ones that already exist and getting involved with existing projects because you know it's good to support work that people are already doing! So for instance Forum Theatre who get people with lived experiences coming together sharing their stories and co producing a play which they present to an audience filled with stakeholders around the different issues, whether it's service providers, decision makers, or just members of the general public.
So you do the play the first time around it's all these different crisis points and it represents a collective struggle that we've all experienced. And we invite the audience to intervene and say what could be done differently and things and for doing the sort of action, it encourages people to problem solve together and co produce. Having these conversations and making knowledge together in a room matter because it can led to legislation like the homelessness reduction. This reach can have a real result!
Why creative methods? Do you think these methods help with coproducing research and addressing power and powerlessness in research?
I think, because it’s of kind democratising in that it that makes knowledge democratic and gives it back to people because coproduction recognizes that people have their own methods and previous knowledge and have their own ideas and interests. You're not going in to try and extract information from them you're going there to hear what they have to say, but also contribute what you have to say. Obviously there's still going to be unequal power relations depending on who you are so for example, I am a researcher. So I’ve got that kind of position of power with the institution of the university and my association with it. But then also I have some lived experiences and that's a really complicated terrain to navigate, but there's going to be all these different types of relationships and its learning to deal with them that matters.
But the creative process can allow you to explore it more with participants, and it can break down barriers like access. For instance, we have participants where language is barrier, if English isn’t their first language. You can use things like body language and that can be a really useful way to still engage them in the conversation. You can still acknowledge that their ideas are just as important! And try to avoid using big words and academia and stuff, because it can be really alien to participants sometimes.
Although that being said, there are people who just don’t like doing the creative stuff! And they say things like “I would never do that all! I can't do that.” Because for some people with theatre it can be isolating and just not what they are interested in doing!
What challenges have you faced in using coproduction?
One challenge is the overwhelming mess of it all, because if you do in co production there's just so many different inputs. It can be hard when this person wants this and this person wants that, and everyone's got all these different wants different ideas about how to do things. For instance, some people really don't like theatre, some people really do! How do you manage those relationships and manage those different needs and so it's kind of got to be, as we say, adaptive and really flexible around what you're doing. And I guess not getting too emotionally tied to ideas that you have because you are probably going to drop them and be like okay well that's not going to go down well!
What do you wish you’d known before starting research that uses coproduction?
I probably would have wanted to know how stressful what I can do is going to be before doing it! I’d Highlight to them that it can be, but then also I do think it gives you really good opportunities in independence, because I’m not tied down by the gnatt chart or having to behave in a certain way! Because it is about responding to the people in front of you and being open to that.
And trying to be wholly representative of everyone can be really difficult and I do think that some people are resistant to some of the coproductive ideas in general sometimes!
Any advice you would give to someone interested in using coproduction?
Look into it, a lot more, and think, the more about the experience you’re going to get from it rather than focusing on actually doing. So just look into the different opportunities that there are around in the real world to get involved with other people and from the very beginning! Also don't be afraid to ask questions if people have different ideas or they're not happy with something then ask them why. And just be open to hearing their alternative suggestions and also if somebody at HR is saying to you from a position of power, remember they're not always an expert! Instead I think about ways to collaborate and bring them into the conversation, rather than just ignoring them or just doing it the way they want.
Why do you like using coproduction?
I really like getting involved with people and, working with people rather than telling people what to do, or being told what to do. I think it's really really great doing coproduction because you're working together with people often around issues that you're passionate about. And that they want to do something about and it's towards a common goal it's a really nice way of building a community and doing different actions.